[ibogaine] after ibogaine and SMART

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk
Tue Jul 16 13:29:04 EDT 2002

Dear Alison, and others

I'm sure u have your own reasons for informing me/us of your feelings about
Patrick etc
And this is the umpteenth time I've received an e-mail putting him down.
First of all, PLEASE resolve your issues
Second of all, none of this is my business, and I'd be healthier if not
exposed to it, OK?
Thirdly, he runs this lists for our benefit; i met him; seems like a good
person. Enough already

Let's assess ourselves, and where we're at before we dare to presume it's ok
to trash others.

I don't want a response to this; U r putting him down, and this HUGE ONGOING
F debate about who's got the best/right/healthiest recovery DOESN at T HELP us.
PLEASE stop this

OR if you do want to discuss things that help us, do it in a way that
doesn't offend, or hurt others.

Today, I buried another addict. I just don't understand WHY we carry on
doing this. There is no ONE WAY; there are many ways that have helped. (TOO
MANY that haven't) but if u r aware of those, then join us in changing this
crazy sysytem


Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Alison Senepart [mailto:aa.senepart at xtra.co.nz]
Sent: 16 August 2002 14:12
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] after ibogaine and SMART

Go Rebecca.  Thats about the most common sense I've sent posted here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail at hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002 23:07
Subject: [ibogaine] after ibogaine and SMART

>Hi Eric,
>I try to stay out of most of the more heated conversations here except I
>wanted to say some things to you and I hope you hear at least a few of
>I know you might be going through a bad time because the last one of your
>friends who you were spending time with has overdosed. That's always so
>but you are not alone a lot of us have dealt with that and felt it before.
>Patrick and Dr. Mash and all that has made the rounds so many times it's
>like why bother. Whatever her reasons or his reasons, it's not all that
>complicated. There is almost no difference between Patrick and DM, the only
>person who has ever lasted being in her environment is him. Where they
>actually work is a totally toxic and chaotic place where anyone even near
>for more then a hour is nervous. The only people who thrive there are the
>extremely smart and crazy.
>I have heard all the Patrick stories before, there is nearly the main 10
>reasons Patrick is Satan class at some of the rehabs he went through before
>leaving for Thailand. What I've realized is that he and DM are exactly the
>same in so many ways, they are manic depressive like crazy, really smart
>except the difference is Patrick does get real because he was an addict, DM
>can put that one off forever. And I have seen him before, if I didn't know
>him I'd say that guy is on speed and crack and about to sail off the
>But then 3 minutes later he pulls it together and acts like the nicest
>person in the world. His brain chemistry is out there and whatever his
>problems I'm sure he was self medicating with heroin.
>Beside whatever the personal issues are, DM loves to power trip and Patrick
>totally fulfills that. Hardcore life time drug addiction, clean three years
>after taking only her advice. Does all her computer things, does all her
>things, does huge amounts of PR for her, does her brain bank and does a job
>people train 8 years for after 6 months of being around it. And he does all
>that because Dr. Mash did all that :-) Or maybe not, but it's nice to take
>credit for :-)
>It's easy to fill up pages with all the stories that make the rounds but it
>won't change anything or make any difference to you Eric. Patrick is
>Patrick, DM is DM, Eric is you and your own problems aren't the result of
>any of them. There are at least 3 people in our group who are doing SMART
>and think it's great. If you want to or anyone from Miami does, join us at
>Little River, someone is there every day but most of the after ibogaine
>group who is not doing the steps exactly but something else and are staying
>sober, meets on Wed at 7:30. You're invited too Patrick! But we personally
>invite you at least once a month and you never reply to the email.
>Anyone who is in Miami or passing through and happens to be in town on a
>Wednesday is invited. It's the Little River club off Biscayne.
>The difference between SMART and Rational Recovery is that SMART doesn't
>have $20,000 worth of videotapes and books to sell you. It was started by
>that RR guy, but he's interested in running a large business, SMART are
>people who want to stop defining themselves as addicts.
>And you know what else, everything Patrick ever writes or says is 'I'm not
>in recovery, I just stopped shooting heroin,' Randy on this list wrote
>nearly the same thing, most of us have grown into beliefs very close to
>that. The only ones left defining themselves as addicts are the ones who
>still sitting in rehab and relapsing because of a mysterious disease :-)
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