Eric, whomever, if you do decide to read this through, have 10 mi ns to spare.

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk
Mon Jul 15 11:17:58 EDT 2002


 Eric

Hi, I'm in London, and I'm not an addict anymore. (God, Ive been DYING to
say that somewhere public for ages!)

Anyway, to the point: u ask some important questions about recovery and
though I wish (u hadn't alluded to PK) again, it did give me a sense of
where you are. And hey, i think I've been there, and fairly recently too

Did NA for years. Groups, individual therapist; (mostly mediocre)
ocassionally good. Then I met a group of people who were NOT addicts, but
used psychedelics ocassionally, and as we got on well and I loved those
substances as a teenager, not to mention all the serios studying and
soul-searching that goes with it, I joined their gang as it were. Then I
began, as a conscious woman to see the differences between them and me. At
first this was HARD - initially i decided that all the negaitve brainwashing
about 'me' from NA, Phoenix House and goodness knows were else, was all
true. Then I realised hey, they/we're all human and have our foibles  -
DONG!!! I was not the only human being who f-up, made mistakes, hurt myself
others etc etc - u know the drill. And so within that realisation I decided
to allow myself to do psychedelics now and then in order to clear my head
out - accelerated-stylee, literally as well as psychically! - and see if I
could get on with my life without addiction disaster striking. 

I have not shot dope for exactly 9 yrs - woo hoo! (as PK's always saying)
Ocassionally my drinking goes wobbly, but hey even that has not hooked me.
In fact, i drink rarely. So though I sometimes feel like I'm walking a
tightrope, it's a few yrs of evidence that indicates, I do not HAVE TO get a
ddicted to drugs every time I take them! It's not compulsory

You say it's this addiction thing that throws me, and I ask exactly what U
mean? 4 me it's this feeling of not being able to stop feeling, doing, being
something that I know has to go out of my life. But I also learnt that
SELF-ACCEPTANCE is crucial in recovery; indeed, it does seem to be one of
the corner stones of everybody's healing, no? Yes? Whatever; it's critical 4
me.

I went to SMART - FUNNILY ENOUGH - recently as I bumped into a guy, 10
months off H, who was clearly doing really well from it; he asked me to come
and see it, and review it for the User mag I edit. Only went once, so I'm
not sure i can give a good assessment. (Perhaps I learnt that I rather
prefer more structure in life and support groups, but it was fun and I
certainly appreciated being reminded to think of me/u (everybody) as
positively as poss.)

Maybe u've gotten addicted to groups?! I did - that's a wild one, and it can
be confusing cos everyone's feedback will be different!
Or maybe u hang in them for fellowship, love etc when actually U're a
sweetheart in your own right, and u don't have to have someone tell u. I've
rarely met an addict/ex-addict who isn't!! I really don't know what your own
answer is cos I don't know you, but I hope this contributes to u working out
what it is u need/want - how to get out of the 'suffering of addiction.' And
I hope this makes sense to you

Which state are u in BTW? Take care

Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

P.S:
Probably best not to bash list moderator, cos as u say, he is charming, and
folk like us love to rescue, and methinks he's a good man, after one meet in
London and ENDLESS e-mail reads.


-----Original Message-----
From: eric seitz [mailto:erictseitz at hotmail.com]
Sent: 12 July 2002 22:11
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] recovery options and the concept of addiction



I've changed the topic because whether ibogaine alters genetic expression 
could be a very interesting thread if anyone who knew what they were talking

about posted anything, which they won't as you yourself pointed out in a 
roundabout way.

I don't post anything often and when I do every few months it probably is a 
symptom of my own problems that I'm not owning. I have no problem at all 
with you, you're a exceptional person. What bothers me is addiction itself.

I know many of the people who attempted to treat you, I know the after 
ibogaine scene in Miami, not one of them says anything except you are a 
nightmare and then starts to list all your problems. 3 years later I don't 
think it means anything and I'm starting to think even they must realize 
that. I've read most of what you've written on ibogaine on recovery but I 
just can't do it like that. I would desperetely love to tell all these 
people in my face to go fuck themselves and sail off down the yellow brick 
road where Dr. Mash for all intents and purposes adopts me and let's me get 
away with anything I want, because I'm very smart and charming and that's 
all that matters in her world especially when she can use you to promote 
anything she wants to say about addiction. She's always right because you 
exist and didn't take anyone's advice but hers. In your world Dr. Mash is a 
wonderful person who's mommy and everyone else is some asshole who annoyed 
you. And for you, that's true.

What drives me crazy is I don't understand. What did she ever see in you 
when you were some strung out mess that landed on her doorstep, threw a lit 
cigarette on her couch and told her what a bitch she is. That experience as 
I also think someone else from Miami ranted about on this list is one of the

greatest moments of her life, she tells it at every ibogaine story session, 
"that's my son! he told me to go fuck myself and not play that mommy shit!" 
and therapists are horrified. And she's happy.

Therapists are horrified nearly says all of it, except add in 
additionologists and anybody else who knows anything about addiction.

How does this stuff work? How does it work for Y O U that's different for 
everyone else. I read this list to hear people talk and see what they do and

all of it is all over the place and doesn't make any more sense then 
anything else.

Just when I think someone is making a lot of sense they slide in that by the

way they're on prescription pain meds or this or that, or something else and

it doesn't matter to me but I'm not sure how helpful any of their advice is 
when that was one of my problems to begin with.

You bother me because I'd like to do what you do, but I can't. If i stop 
going to therapy and groups I will relapse, I've learned this. Even how you 
act or I've heard you act to be fair, I would say you smoke crack even if 
you don't shoot heroin, except your bodily fluids come with a pedigree and 
anytime someone tosses out how insane you are, Dr. Mash throws back that she

has blood, saliva and hair from you dating back for 3 years. It may glow in 
the dark from LSD but there is no opiate or cocaine in it.

That is amazing.

I am sick to death of therapy and groups and starting to ask myself which is

the lesser of the two evils, treatment or just doing drugs.

Has anyone reading this list tried Rational Recovery or SMART and had any 
degree of sucess with it at all? Or anything that is structured in some way,

not a list of 20 suggestions that range from go skateboarding to go fly a 
kite, some system that is not the 12 steps and does not involve constant 
groups and therapy?

I am really at wits end here and know I need to do something, I don't know 
what that something is.

Any advice is gratefully accepted on or off list.

-ETS-



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