[ibogaine] recovery options and the concept of addiction

preston peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Fri Jul 12 19:45:45 EDT 2002


Eric wrote >Just when I think someone is making a lot of sense they slide in that by the 
way they're on prescription pain meds or this or that, or something else and 
it doesn't matter to me but I'm not sure how helpful any of their advice is 
when that was one of my problems to begin with.<

Do you mean "Taking" pain meds, or "On" pain meds? Great big huge difference, in my own humble opinion. Are you saying that because someone may take certain "unapproved" drugs, then they no longer "make sense" to you because of that, or simply that it's something you feel you "can't" do without going back to drug abuse yourself?  
  
>I am sick to death of therapy and groups and starting to ask myself which is 
the lesser of the two evils, treatment or just doing drugs.<
 
Sincere good luck on your hunt for happiness in "recovery". If I may, how long have you been "clean" and why are you seemingly feeling "sick to death of therapy and groups" and if you did "just do drugs" what harms would you be doing to yourself? Would you have to go do whatever drugs it was that drove you to therapy and groups? Is/are they the only ones that you can envisage doing/taking? Is/are there any "drugs" licit or illicit you feel you could take that won't allow you to give yourself the excuse to go screw yourself and those around you while on? 

>Has anyone reading this list tried Rational Recovery or SMART and had any 
degree of sucess with it at all? Or anything that is structured in some way, 
not a list of 20 suggestions that range from go skateboarding to go fly a 
kite, some system that is not the 12 steps and does not involve constant 
groups and therapy?<

Don't these "groups" advocate responsible use of alcohol, or drugs? What's "structured" if not "constant groups and therapy"? Again personally, I ALWAYS found the NA rooms, (or any -A rooms I found myself in at various times), KEPT my mind on drugs and the desires to use and abuse, and I was berated with comments constantly in those same rooms about the oh so horrid lifelong battle we addicts were facing NOT doing drugs and gee isn't that terrible and gosh wish we could do drugs. What's the point of that kind of torture if you are not happy in that setting? Why continue with that, if you are driving yourself to your wits end? I'm NOT actually advocating you go out and start using "drugs" willy nilly, or even at all, but it sounds like you've got to do SOMETHING different, and I won't suggest anything flippant like exercise, skateboarding or kite flying. You are the only one who knows when you feel happiest, and what you can do to get yourself there. Based on my own experiences, I usually know exactly what that something I can do to make myself happier is too, but am not always ready to face, nor admit it to myself, as my own unhappiness usually leads back to something or other I'm kidding myself about, or lying to myself about, or "denying", or some such similar situation.

>I am really at wits end here and know I need to do something, I don't know 
what that something is.<

I'm very serious, I wish you luck and ease in finding your relief. What works for me worked for me. Only advice I can offer, for what it's worth, is for you to go with whatever you find most appealing and smooth, and that whatever it is you're doing now doesn't seem to be working for you, at least not right now, or on its own.
    I realize this probably won't help much if at all, but still, best wishes.
Peace,
Preston







  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: eric seitz 
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:11 PM
  Subject: [ibogaine] recovery options and the concept of addiction



  I've changed the topic because whether ibogaine alters genetic expression 
  could be a very interesting thread if anyone who knew what they were talking 
  about posted anything, which they won't as you yourself pointed out in a 
  roundabout way.

  I don't post anything often and when I do every few months it probably is a 
  symptom of my own problems that I'm not owning. I have no problem at all 
  with you, you're a exceptional person. What bothers me is addiction itself.

  I know many of the people who attempted to treat you, I know the after 
  ibogaine scene in Miami, not one of them says anything except you are a 
  nightmare and then starts to list all your problems. 3 years later I don't 
  think it means anything and I'm starting to think even they must realize 
  that. I've read most of what you've written on ibogaine on recovery but I 
  just can't do it like that. I would desperetely love to tell all these 
  people in my face to go fuck themselves and sail off down the yellow brick 
  road where Dr. Mash for all intents and purposes adopts me and let's me get 
  away with anything I want, because I'm very smart and charming and that's 
  all that matters in her world especially when she can use you to promote 
  anything she wants to say about addiction. She's always right because you 
  exist and didn't take anyone's advice but hers. In your world Dr. Mash is a 
  wonderful person who's mommy and everyone else is some asshole who annoyed 
  you. And for you, that's true.

  What drives me crazy is I don't understand. What did she ever see in you 
  when you were some strung out mess that landed on her doorstep, threw a lit 
  cigarette on her couch and told her what a bitch she is. That experience as 
  I also think someone else from Miami ranted about on this list is one of the 
  greatest moments of her life, she tells it at every ibogaine story session, 
  "that's my son! he told me to go fuck myself and not play that mommy shit!" 
  and therapists are horrified. And she's happy.

  Therapists are horrified nearly says all of it, except add in 
  additionologists and anybody else who knows anything about addiction.

  How does this stuff work? How does it work for Y O U that's different for 
  everyone else. I read this list to hear people talk and see what they do and 
  all of it is all over the place and doesn't make any more sense then 
  anything else.

  Just when I think someone is making a lot of sense they slide in that by the 
  way they're on prescription pain meds or this or that, or something else and 
  it doesn't matter to me but I'm not sure how helpful any of their advice is 
  when that was one of my problems to begin with.

  You bother me because I'd like to do what you do, but I can't. If i stop 
  going to therapy and groups I will relapse, I've learned this. Even how you 
  act or I've heard you act to be fair, I would say you smoke crack even if 
  you don't shoot heroin, except your bodily fluids come with a pedigree and 
  anytime someone tosses out how insane you are, Dr. Mash throws back that she 
  has blood, saliva and hair from you dating back for 3 years. It may glow in 
  the dark from LSD but there is no opiate or cocaine in it.

  That is amazing.

  I am sick to death of therapy and groups and starting to ask myself which is 
  the lesser of the two evils, treatment or just doing drugs.

  Has anyone reading this list tried Rational Recovery or SMART and had any 
  degree of sucess with it at all? Or anything that is structured in some way, 
  not a list of 20 suggestions that range from go skateboarding to go fly a 
  kite, some system that is not the 12 steps and does not involve constant 
  groups and therapy?

  I am really at wits end here and know I need to do something, I don't know 
  what that something is.

  Any advice is gratefully accepted on or off list.

  -ETS-



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