recovery options and the concept of addiction

eric seitz erictseitz at
Fri Jul 12 17:11:29 EDT 2002

I've changed the topic because whether ibogaine alters genetic expression 
could be a very interesting thread if anyone who knew what they were talking 
about posted anything, which they won't as you yourself pointed out in a 
roundabout way.

I don't post anything often and when I do every few months it probably is a 
symptom of my own problems that I'm not owning. I have no problem at all 
with you, you're a exceptional person. What bothers me is addiction itself.

I know many of the people who attempted to treat you, I know the after 
ibogaine scene in Miami, not one of them says anything except you are a 
nightmare and then starts to list all your problems. 3 years later I don't 
think it means anything and I'm starting to think even they must realize 
that. I've read most of what you've written on ibogaine on recovery but I 
just can't do it like that. I would desperetely love to tell all these 
people in my face to go fuck themselves and sail off down the yellow brick 
road where Dr. Mash for all intents and purposes adopts me and let's me get 
away with anything I want, because I'm very smart and charming and that's 
all that matters in her world especially when she can use you to promote 
anything she wants to say about addiction. She's always right because you 
exist and didn't take anyone's advice but hers. In your world Dr. Mash is a 
wonderful person who's mommy and everyone else is some asshole who annoyed 
you. And for you, that's true.

What drives me crazy is I don't understand. What did she ever see in you 
when you were some strung out mess that landed on her doorstep, threw a lit 
cigarette on her couch and told her what a bitch she is. That experience as 
I also think someone else from Miami ranted about on this list is one of the 
greatest moments of her life, she tells it at every ibogaine story session, 
"that's my son! he told me to go fuck myself and not play that mommy shit!" 
and therapists are horrified. And she's happy.

Therapists are horrified nearly says all of it, except add in 
additionologists and anybody else who knows anything about addiction.

How does this stuff work? How does it work for Y O U that's different for 
everyone else. I read this list to hear people talk and see what they do and 
all of it is all over the place and doesn't make any more sense then 
anything else.

Just when I think someone is making a lot of sense they slide in that by the 
way they're on prescription pain meds or this or that, or something else and 
it doesn't matter to me but I'm not sure how helpful any of their advice is 
when that was one of my problems to begin with.

You bother me because I'd like to do what you do, but I can't. If i stop 
going to therapy and groups I will relapse, I've learned this. Even how you 
act or I've heard you act to be fair, I would say you smoke crack even if 
you don't shoot heroin, except your bodily fluids come with a pedigree and 
anytime someone tosses out how insane you are, Dr. Mash throws back that she 
has blood, saliva and hair from you dating back for 3 years. It may glow in 
the dark from LSD but there is no opiate or cocaine in it.

That is amazing.

I am sick to death of therapy and groups and starting to ask myself which is 
the lesser of the two evils, treatment or just doing drugs.

Has anyone reading this list tried Rational Recovery or SMART and had any 
degree of sucess with it at all? Or anything that is structured in some way, 
not a list of 20 suggestions that range from go skateboarding to go fly a 
kite, some system that is not the 12 steps and does not involve constant 
groups and therapy?

I am really at wits end here and know I need to do something, I don't know 
what that something is.

Any advice is gratefully accepted on or off list.


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