[ibogaine] RE: Conferences

Patrick K. Kroupa digital at mindvox.com
Mon Jul 1 13:57:40 EDT 2002

On [Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 08:10:27PM -0700], [Carrie Rollins] wrote:

| Exactly, exactly exactly! 
| Repeat 1000 times!!! :-)

Hum . . . that could get boring after the first hundred or three
repetitions...  However, instead of bitching that you wrote 6 words -- 7
counting an emoticon -- and quoted the whole entire message yet again...
After reading it back for what...  The third time or so, I have some
comments to make, so 'scuse me while I talk to myself...

| --- Kerry Dawson <kdawsonais at yahoo.com> wrote:
| > 
| > Valid point Patrick, no I can't say that I have. And
| > might feel very differently having gone through that
| > sort of recovery. But statistically and in my
| > experience it does work for many people. There are
| > very few people, if I had to use a percentage I
| > would say the percentage is less then 1% who can
| > simply do whatever they want or feel they need to do
| > in order to back off from hard drugs, or step back
| > from the cliff's edge.

This is all possible, but it doesn't change my opinions on coerced
treatment.  Francis pretty much sums it up in Heroin User's Handbook,
where his -- not exactly advice, but general overview and conclusions are;
when given the choice between "treatment" and prison time, do yourself a
favor and find out what "treatment" means, 'cuz odds are you'll have a
much better time, and suffer less damage to your psyche by just going and
sitting in the cell.  Which is what he did when given that option.

Although to be real...  This concept of "bottom" was something I found
through the joys of coercion.  If I'm sleeping on the floor of a shooting
gallery, it's 'cuz I've made choices; I need $500 - $800 a day to bang
into my arm.  If I'm sitting in a cell, it means I fucked up.  What I
have learned from this is that I need to be faster and more aware next
time, my mistake.  What I learned in "treatment" is...  Well, I'm
surrounded by idiots who I wouldn't hire to go get me a cup of coffee who
are annoying me and telling me what to do...  I live in a dump with a
bunch of whiny people who sit and spin and complain all day about not
being high, and then blow out en masse' and relapse on a regular basis.
All of this is like really bad surrealism or some comedy routine which
just keeps repeating itself over and over and over again, without ever
getting to the punchline...  Therefore, there really IS something wrong
with me if I'm here.  However, my problem is that whole entire bangin' up
dope thing, and this...  Does not appear to be solving it.  Therefore, I
really do need to do SOMETHING, but this ain't it.  So good luck with that
mysterious disease guys, I'm outta here.

| > Statistically and also in my experience this does
| > not happen often. Addictionology which you view as a
| > joke was not invented to annoy or amuse you, the
| > field exists like every other field, it's built up
| > through trial and error and seeing what does or does
| > not work.

The problem is, statistically, statistics are a buncha shit that anybody
can spin in any direction they statistically want.  Statistically whatever
you want to believe, you make true for yourself.  So statistically, if you
believe yourself to be in that magical 1% you've pulled out of the air,
then if you REALLY have faith, you'll statistically become that 1%.

I realize the field of addictionology was not invented as a personal
affront to me.  It's just that... it sucks and is filled with people
spouting nonsense.  It's at the level of, "okay so, see, we apply leeches
until the Evil Spirits leave the patient!  Except we're using happy fun
science, so we won't call it demonic possession; instead it's a Mysterious
Disease which can go into remission!"  Woo hoo!

| > And Andrea brought up what I thought was a very
| > important and true point. I would also much rather
| > listen to you Patrick, then to some acedemic talking
| > crap *grin* Her point was that I don't care how you
| > did it but if someone goes through all that and can
| > remain off their drugs, then I don't think it
| > matters how much ibogaine you do or not, you cannot
| > remain "sober" if all you are is a inflated ego and
| > empty shell. Which very much to my regret DP
| > conferences are full of. If that is all you are, you
| > will be back to whatever you were on very fast.
| > Every addict I have known again no matter how they
| > did it, has some sort of real inner core and
| > strength. They have the ability to get real and cut
| > the shit. 

Cool, thanks.

| > Academics operate under no such burden or blessing.

"Operate under no such burden or blessing," is one of MY lines!  Tithe!

| > Yeah, Fuck Them mahn, what do they know 'bout
| > addikshun anywaze. Go do
| > some Real research, live through that, then run your
| > mouth.
| > 
| > Patrick


Peace, (to cop Preston's line)


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