gammalyte9000 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 26 23:49:55 EDT 2002
claiming 90-100% success rates, in my opinion/experience, is not very
I mean, how is that determined? closely tracking those treated over a 2-3 year
span? I think the short term success "could" be that high, but what happens
after the 3-6 month Ibo grace period wears off? I relapsed 2x after Ibo, does
that still mean I'm a "success case"? only in that I eventually got clean
I think that Ibo exceeds the going success rate of other modalities (10%) but
being that folks are getting treated underground there is no collective data
base regarding that info, and the data being compiled in St. Kitts certainly
but hey, to borrow a phrase regarding the arguments that have been flying about
this list... take what you need and leave the rest.
--- Kerry Dawson <kdawsonais at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't want to get into your personal conversations but I think some of you
> are being harder on each other then you need to be. You're a big stranger
> then most, but not any more argumentative then any other group of treatment
> professionals I've ever met. I've been to board meetings where some
> participants have in a literal sense punched each other out.
> Try to talk with 15 treatment experts on methadone maintenance and you'd be
> The only advice I would draw your attention to are throwing out 90% and 100%
> success rates with treatment. I think a few of you pointed that out and then
> went off on one another, I don't remember who is who, because honestly I
> don't understand what you're fighting about. But claims like that will
> instantly make people stop listening to any other claims you're making.
> Considering that some of your claims are already way out there to begin with,
> I might think about that if I were you.
> Best wishes to all,
> Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC
> Hattie <epoptica at freeuk.com> wrote: on 4/30/02 11:12 PM, sara119 at
> sara119 at xs4all.nl wrote:
> I honestly can't believe that you are all arguing about who has higher
> success rates. We as faciltators should all be helping and supporting one
> another, not bitching and certainly not exaggerating claims. None of us can
> possibly give a success rate unless we have been keeping tabs on clients for
> two years plus. Now I would be really interested to hear the results of
> those that have kept a record and communication with everyone that they have
> worked with over that kind of time period.
> I will be honest and say that about 60% of people that see me are still
> clean, the others have used again, but those that have have also gone into
> rehab or kept trying saying that ibogaine gave them the window to see things
> more clearly. Some haven't and have simply decided to use again full stop.
> Many of these people have had mental health problems that needed a lot more
> work than ibogaine could possibly do.
> I don't kid anyone about ibogaine. In my experience it is not miraculous,
> doesn't work for everyone, doesn't work as well for women as men, but works
> for a lot more people than rehabs seem to do. It is also more enjoyable or so
> they all say.
> I see huge potential, but strongly believe that follow up care and therapy is
> needed. Pandoras box is opened and all sorts of stuff needs sorting through.
> Some have the staying power some don't.
> I would also like to say that quibbling about who has better success is an
> ego thing, something we as facilitators should really be working on! Get over
> the notion that it is us doing something. We are not, the alkaloid/plant is
> in conjunction with the inner healer of the person undergoing the potential
> transformation. Once we get that clear ego is dealt with. To believe anything
> else is really disempowering for the individual taking the substance. If they
> walk out of there saying that you as the facilitator changed their life,
> something is very wrong. They changed it, they took the step. I know it is
> easy to fall into thinking otherwise, I have been there myself!
> So lets please all work together and help each other. Carl is your take a
> defensive reaction to possible criticism of your product ad if so please get
> over that.
> Respect to all of you
> are "not so successfull. And it would be great if you could support your
> answer with facts.
> those whom their patients say "It doesn't work ", where did they get a
> treatment ? those who come to me and said I hope this time It will work
> for me ,those had a treatment some where , I just don't like to say
> who because some people just need more then one treatment ,
> But can't make the effort to pay so much money for it again ,
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
More information about the Ibogaine