[ibogaine] Facts

Gamma gammalyte9000 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 26 23:49:55 EDT 2002


claiming 90-100% success rates, in my opinion/experience, is not very
realistic.

I mean, how is that determined? closely tracking those treated over a 2-3 year
span? I think the short term success "could" be that high, but what happens
after the 3-6 month Ibo grace period wears off? I relapsed 2x after Ibo, does
that still mean I'm a "success case"? only in that I eventually got clean
again?

I think that Ibo exceeds the going success rate of other modalities (10%) but
being that folks are getting treated underground there is no collective data
base regarding that info, and the data being compiled in St. Kitts certainly
isn't available.

but hey, to borrow a phrase regarding the arguments that have been flying about
this list... take what you need and leave the rest.

-Gamma


--- Kerry Dawson <kdawsonais at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>  I don't want to get into your personal conversations but I think some of you
> are being harder on each other then you need to be. You're a big stranger
> then most, but not any more argumentative then any other group of treatment
> professionals I've ever met. I've been to board meetings where some
> participants have in a literal sense punched each other out. 
> Try to talk with 15 treatment experts on methadone maintenance and you'd be
> surprised!
> The only advice I would draw your attention to are throwing out 90% and 100%
> success rates with treatment. I think a few of you pointed that out and then
> went off on one another, I don't remember who is who, because honestly I
> don't understand what you're fighting about. But claims like that will
> instantly make people stop listening to any other claims you're making.
> Considering that some of your claims are already way out there to begin with,
> I might think about that if I were you. 
> Best wishes to all,
> Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC
> 
>   Hattie <epoptica at freeuk.com> wrote: on 4/30/02 11:12 PM, sara119 at
> sara119 at xs4all.nl wrote:
> 
> 
> I honestly can't believe that you are all arguing about who has higher
> success rates. We as faciltators should all be helping and supporting one
> another, not bitching and certainly not exaggerating claims. None of us can
> possibly give a success rate unless we have been keeping tabs on  clients for
> two years plus. Now I would be  really interested to hear the results of
> those that have kept a record and communication with everyone that they have
> worked with over that kind of time period.
> I will be honest and say that about 60% of people that see me are still
> clean, the others have used again, but those that have have also gone into
> rehab or kept trying saying that ibogaine gave them the window to see things
> more clearly. Some haven't and have simply decided to use again full stop.
> Many of these people have had mental health problems that needed a lot more
> work than ibogaine could possibly do. 
> I don't kid anyone about ibogaine. In my experience it is not miraculous,
> doesn't work for everyone, doesn't work as well for women as men, but works
> for a lot more people than rehabs seem to do. It is also more enjoyable or so
> they all say.
> I see huge potential, but strongly believe that follow up care and therapy is
> needed. Pandoras box is opened and all sorts of stuff needs sorting through.
> Some have the staying power some don't.
> 
> I would also like to say that quibbling about who has better success is an
> ego thing, something we as facilitators should really be working on! Get over
> the notion that it is us doing something. We are not, the alkaloid/plant is
> in conjunction with the inner healer of the person undergoing the potential
> transformation. Once we get that clear ego is dealt with. To believe anything
> else is really disempowering for the individual taking the substance. If they
> walk out of there saying that you as the facilitator changed their life,
> something is very wrong. They changed it, they took the step. I know it is
> easy to fall into thinking otherwise, I have been there myself!
> 
> So lets please all work together and help each other. Carl is your take a
> defensive reaction to possible criticism of your product ad if so please get
> over that.
> 
> Respect to all of you 
> 
> 
> Hattie
> 
> who 
> are "not so successfull. And it would be great if you could support your 
> answer with facts.
> 
> those whom their patients say "It doesn't work ", where did they get a
> 
> treatment ? those who come to me and said I hope this time It will work
> 
> for me ,those had a treatment some where , I just don't like to say
> 
> who because some people just need more then one treatment  ,
> 
> But can't make the effort to pay so much money for it again ,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
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