Iboga at guest.arnes.si
Fri Apr 26 09:23:42 EDT 2002
it's not about who is more successful; it was about why Carl glorifies Sara
and his product, and discartes everyone else. But that is solved - I
At 13:06 26.4.2002, you wrote:
>on 4/30/02 11:12 PM, sara119 at sara119 at xs4all.nl wrote:
>I honestly can't believe that you are all arguing about who has higher
>success rates. We as faciltators should all be helping and supporting one
>another, not bitching and certainly not exaggerating claims. None of us
>can possibly give a success rate unless we have been keeping tabs
>on clients for two years plus. Now I would be really interested to hear
>the results of those that have kept a record and communication with
>everyone that they have worked with over that kind of time period.
>I will be honest and say that about 60% of people that see me are still
>clean, the others have used again, but those that have have also gone into
>rehab or kept trying saying that ibogaine gave them the window to see
>things more clearly. Some haven't and have simply decided to use again
>full stop. Many of these people have had mental health problems that
>needed a lot more work than ibogaine could possibly do.
>I don't kid anyone about ibogaine. In my experience it is not miraculous,
>doesn't work for everyone, doesn't work as well for women as men, but
>works for a lot more people than rehabs seem to do. It is also more
>enjoyable or so they all say.
>I see huge potential, but strongly believe that follow up care and therapy
>is needed. Pandoras box is opened and all sorts of stuff needs sorting
>through. Some have the staying power some don't.
>I would also like to say that quibbling about who has better success is an
>ego thing, something we as facilitators should really be working on! Get
>over the notion that it is us doing something. We are not, the
>alkaloid/plant is in conjunction with the inner healer of the person
>undergoing the potential transformation. Once we get that clear ego is
>dealt with. To believe anything else is really disempowering for the
>individual taking the substance. If they walk out of there saying that you
>as the facilitator changed their life, something is very wrong. They
>changed it, they took the step. I know it is easy to fall into thinking
>otherwise, I have been there myself!
>So lets please all work together and help each other. Carl is your take a
>defensive reaction to possible criticism of your product ad if so please
>get over that.
>Respect to all of you
>are "not so successfull. And it would be great if you could support your
>answer with facts.
>those whom their patients say "It doesn't work ", where did they get a
>treatment ? those who come to me and said I hope this time It will work
>for me ,those had a treatment some where , I just don't like to say
>who because some people just need more then one treatment ,
>But can't make the effort to pay so much money for it again ,
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