[ibogaine] Facts

Ustanova Iboga Iboga at guest.arnes.si
Fri Apr 26 09:23:42 EDT 2002


Hi Hattie,

it's not about who is more successful; it was about why Carl glorifies Sara 
and his product, and discartes everyone else. But that is solved - I 
believe ;-))

Marko

At 13:06 26.4.2002, you wrote:
>on 4/30/02 11:12 PM, sara119 at sara119 at xs4all.nl wrote:
>
>
>I honestly can't believe that you are all arguing about who has higher 
>success rates. We as faciltators should all be helping and supporting one 
>another, not bitching and certainly not exaggerating claims. None of us 
>can possibly give a success rate unless we have been keeping tabs 
>on  clients for two years plus. Now I would be  really interested to hear 
>the results of those that have kept a record and communication with 
>everyone that they have worked with over that kind of time period.
>I will be honest and say that about 60% of people that see me are still 
>clean, the others have used again, but those that have have also gone into 
>rehab or kept trying saying that ibogaine gave them the window to see 
>things more clearly. Some haven't and have simply decided to use again 
>full stop. Many of these people have had mental health problems that 
>needed a lot more work than ibogaine could possibly do.
>I don't kid anyone about ibogaine. In my experience it is not miraculous, 
>doesn't work for everyone, doesn't work as well for women as men, but 
>works for a lot more people than rehabs seem to do. It is also more 
>enjoyable or so they all say.
>I see huge potential, but strongly believe that follow up care and therapy 
>is needed. Pandoras box is opened and all sorts of stuff needs sorting 
>through. Some have the staying power some don't.
>
>I would also like to say that quibbling about who has better success is an 
>ego thing, something we as facilitators should really be working on! Get 
>over the notion that it is us doing something. We are not, the 
>alkaloid/plant is in conjunction with the inner healer of the person 
>undergoing the potential transformation. Once we get that clear ego is 
>dealt with. To believe anything else is really disempowering for the 
>individual taking the substance. If they walk out of there saying that you 
>as the facilitator changed their life, something is very wrong. They 
>changed it, they took the step. I know it is easy to fall into thinking 
>otherwise, I have been there myself!
>
>So lets please all work together and help each other. Carl is your take a 
>defensive reaction to possible criticism of your product ad if so please 
>get over that.
>
>Respect to all of you
>
>
>Hattie
>who
>are "not so successfull. And it would be great if you could support your
>answer with facts.
>
>those whom their patients say "It doesn't work ", where did they get a
>treatment ? those who come to me and said I hope this time It will work
>for me ,those had a treatment some where , I just don't like to say
>who because some people just need more then one treatment  ,
>But can't make the effort to pay so much money for it again ,
>
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